This is an interview between myself and Dr. Ty Vincent on allergy, autoimmunity, and immunotherapy. He’s doing very exciting stuff out in Hawaii.
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Unedited transcript below.
Unknown Speaker 0:01
Hello everyone, Dr. Stillman here I'm joined by Dr. Ty Vinson, who if you haven't heard of him is definitely one of the pioneers in the field of, I guess I would call an integrative immunology. But I'll let him to find it if he wants to. And what I'll briefly preface this with is that what people don't know about the immune system, and really the industry that's sprung up around immune problems, be there with the thyroid, or other endocrine glands, or allergies or autoimmune diseases of different organs, is that there is an enormous amount of disinformation and misinformation out there. And much of it being, you know, spread by well meaning people who just don't fundamentally understand how the immune system works. And the reason why I'm sitting here with Dr. Benson is that in my practice, the main thing that I do with people is get them to change their fundamental habits that if they don't fix, they're going to wreck their immune system, pretty much no matter what they do. Beyond that, though, I have a lot of cases where people aren't getting the results that they want, or they want more rapid results. And what I found is that when we start to modulate or let's call it treat the immune system with various different modalities called immunotherapy, we can start to get those people the results that they want. So documents thanks for joining me, I really appreciate it. Let's talk about let's let's start with your story with immunology and how you got interested in this. And I know it's a long one, but how you, you know, got from sort of medical student to suddenly doing only immune immunotherapy.
Unknown Speaker 1:41
Yeah, thanks, Dr. Silva. And I might be able to lay that out in five minutes or less. So before I was kind of naive, before I got to medical school, I thought I was going to be taught how to heal people naturally how to make the body work, how to create healthy individuals,
Unknown Speaker 1:58
as we saw in the south, bless your little heart.
Unknown Speaker 2:00
Yeah, right. I know, you ignorant fool. So I went to the University of Washington, which was supposed to be the number one medical school in the country for primary care and all that. So I was reading, like Andrew wheels books on natural medicine, I was reading Clinical Nutrition textbooks and biochemistry textbooks and nutrition and whatnot before medical school trying to prepare for what I thought it was going to learn. And I didn't get taught any of that. But I kept that interest. And as I went through training, I thought that I was supposed to learn how to make illnesses go away. What you're actually taught in conventional medical training is how to manage chronic illnesses and just kind of maintain them at a slow burn. And you're not expected to fix anything. You're not expected to solve any problems and I could not really stomach that. So as I have completed a family medicine training, and I did everything in the world and family medicine, I did delivered babies, I did endoscopy, I managed my own ICU patients, I did circumcisions I managed, like from birth to death, everything. And I just got more and more gravitated towards complicated chronic illness conditions. Because my training didn't equip me to solve those problems for people, those people didn't respond to the things and in conventional medical world, they basically want you to just think all those people are psychiatric cases, right? Oh, their problems aren't real, because our tests are normal, and our treatments don't work. Instead of realizing that the medical field is always lacking in knowledge and information. What they don't lack is overconfidence and arrogance. And so like there's this bad mixture of arrogance and ignorance that makes doctors unfortunately dangerous people to allow us how you really feel Thai? Yeah, well, that's that was my take on the whole experience. I mean, as I went through medical training, I learned everything the way I was supposed to, I scored in the top 1% in the country on every national test I ever took all through medical training, the family practice board exam. And then I was doing things differently from everyone because the way I was taught wasn't really working. And I became sort of this pariah in my local medical community. I was the weirdo who was doing things wrong, even though I was getting results for people that they weren't that I, you know, I developed this sort of cynicism, and I guess, disdain for a lot of the medical community. Unfortunately, like we were talking about before we started that I think they're well meaning people. But the way you're brainwashed through medical training makes it really hard for you to even try to figure things out on your own. It's beaten into you that this is the way you're supposed to do it and anything else is just wrong. Right? And that's, that's very limiting. That's the opposite of progress. And that's the antithesis of learning and, and, you know, innovation, right. So luckily, that didn't work on me. I learned acupuncture, I learned Chinese herbal medicine. I learned bioidentical hormone therapy, I learned chelation therapy. I learned other methods of detoxification intravenous nutrition. I became a Reiki Master. I just kept picking up different skill sets. Along the way, learn hyperbaric medicine, and I was able to stick more and more things for more and more people and learn a lot more about how the body works and whatnot. As I went through all that, I continue to hit walls and fail with people and what I started to realize that a lot of my failures seemed to have immunological dysfunction, right. And like you were talking about trying to make the individual as healthy as possible with all the natural Pathak stuff that I they also picked up and learned, you know, nutrition and diet and lifestyle and supplements and detoxification, the whole functional medicine paradigm, which I learned functional medicine to back in 2005 2006. That would get you so far. And for for many of these people, it still didn't fix them, you know, you could make a very, very healthy individual who was still sick, who still had a chronic illness problem. And I've laid that out for you. And they resonate with it, like, Yeah, I'm doing everything, right. I'm living this healthy lifestyle. I'm making things really complicated for myself, because it's not easy to find good food, it's not easy to just get all the chemicals out of my house. Once you started getting into that world, you realize what a complicated situation that is, and they're still sick. And what I would find is that for many of them, they either had hormonal abnormalities that I could rebalance or supplement, or they had immunological dysfunction. And once your immune system starts to attack something, and you're suffering the consequences of the crossfire or your immune system starts to attack you directly in the case of auto immunity. Just making that person healthier, often doesn't fix it. So I had to learn methods of immunotherapy like said so in like the early 2000s, mid 2000s, I got involved with the Environmental Medicine Academy and I learned sublingual immunotherapy, I learned provocation neutralization. And then I went to a workshop on lda, low dose allergy therapy in 2007. And because I had some patients with obvious horrific allergies that didn't respond to conventional drugs or other methodologies, and I was using LDA. And it was extremely effective for treating allergies. And it also had a few bacterial antigens involved with they could treat specific autoimmune diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, ankylosing spondylitis, you know, there were a few that they had been treating successfully for 50 years, you know, this has been around since around 1960. But very limited number of people knew about it. So I started using the technique and found it to be very effective. And I just sort of took the concept of that and realize that we should be able to apply it to a very, very wide array of other kinds of immunological and inflammatory conditions. So I said about experimenting with people with different kinds of antigens that I would have to create myself or purchase, you know, micro organisms, dead dead microbes, and standardized, you know, vials from antigen warehouses and things like that. And over the years, I was able to make connections between different autoimmune disorders or chronic inflammatory disorders, and the right antigen and I figured out a way to manipulate the entire therapy to find the ideal dose for each individual person, whereas LDA was kind of a one size fits all strategy. Here's the food mixture, and it's one concentration or inhalants one country that works for you or it doesn't. Whereas I took some of the principles from other methods of immunotherapy which involve titrating the dose to meet the individual where they are right and by concept with the LDA concept and develop this whole new system that I call LDI, or low dose immunotherapy. And now I have hundreds of different antigens. And we've been able to solve dozens of other autoimmune disorders that didn't have solutions before. Chronic Lyme disease and other chronic inflammatory disorders respond very well. I've had some a small percentage of autistic spectrum disorders respond really well. But there's still a lot to learn in that area. It's a tough, really tough it is it is multi, a lot of these things are multifactorial, like you said people also have to improve the health of themselves and their body. And one of the biggest areas I've run into now as you continue to hit dead ends and walls, one of the biggest things I ran through now is the psycho emotional mind body piece for people is I think often that last wall gets in the way. Absolutely. Whatever I do for them isn't going to work. Because they are this this that's prior trauma that they have or some other psycho emotional disturbance, depression, whatever, self loathing, I don't know what it is, and different individuals is prevent them from being well. And that's that's another friend here to try to, you know, breach eventually.
Unknown Speaker 9:31
Yeah. And I try and work with people on that concurrently with fixing their environment because I found the exact same thing, right, no matter how many sauna sessions and coffee enemas and supplements and whatever somebody was doing, they were frequently and what what's been remarkable is when I start to explain some of these, you know, emotional dynamics to people, they start to nod as I'm explaining them and they're saying, oh, yeah, that really resonates with me. And then I joke now that I occasionally will diagnose like Toxic mother in law syndrome or, you know, right? Terrible son in law itis or whatever. And it's a real thing. But what I find so fascinating about it is you'll still get people who tell me like I've patients that like, look, you know, my prayer, personal religious, emotional life has never been better. You know, I actually I joke with my patients, the short version of what I do is sell your worldly possessions moved to a tropical island and eat a local seasonal diet rich and fish and shellfish. And working on that. Yeah, well, you're pretty far ahead in a pretty run down that curve. He lives in Hawaii for the record.
Unknown Speaker 10:35
I moved from Alaska to Hawaii. You know, after, after my immune system tried to kill me, I went through a period of intense life stress and multiple things piled on and I developed type one diabetes at age 39, which is not supposed to happen. That's the childhood diabetes part, right? Yeah, I developed autoimmune diabetes now 10 years ago, at age 39. And I'm still trying to find an LDI solution for this, I get to take another dose of my latest antigen experiment today, in fact, but that was a wake up call to me that I had to make some changes and reduce my stress in my life and find out how to enjoy my life more while I was living it. And so I've been there myself, it makes it a lot easier for me to understand other people that are in the place I was 10 years ago.
Unknown Speaker 11:18
Totally. Yeah. So I tell people to do this, right. But I have, I have exactly one patient who has actually taken me up on this, he moved to Costa Rica, he now runs a series of like Airbnb s. And he's always sending me photos and videos of his garden is like there's the yucca plants and we put the coconuts in over here. It's great. But he's still like, Listen, I'm not quite right. And I don't know, I don't know what else is going on. And I get these people and I say, look, what if your immune system is the problem? Why don't you go talk to Dr. Benson? So let's talk about who the right people are for this. And let's talk about how to figure out you know how to go about it?
Unknown Speaker 11:56
Well, in terms of immunological illness, there are two or three baskets that people kind of fall into one is allergy. So allergy means you have a negative reaction to something that's not part of you. That's basically it. Versus autoimmunity means you have a negative immune reaction to something that is part of you. So the only real difference between the two kind of conceptually, is the location of the antigen. Is it part of you, or is it something else. And it's more complicated than that, because most autoimmune disorders, you're actually reacting to some micro organism that lives in you or transiently lived in you. There wasn't truly you, but it's inherently part of you, because it's part of your microbiome. So that's most autoimmunity. And then you end up cross reacting with yourself in some way. And then that becomes its own continuous cyclical self attack. But with allergies, it's often easier because oftentimes, people know what they're reacting to. So like one of the first question you have to answer with immunotherapy is what is the antigen I need to use for the person right? Once you figured out the right antigen, it's just a matter of systematically going through the dilutions and finding out where they respond. So the big question, first is what do we need to use like it, but if somebody comes in and they go, I'm allergic to these foods, the food mixture, if somebody is allergic to trees, and grass and animals and mold, then you'll use the environmental mixture. If somebody reacts to chemicals use the chemical mixture. So allergy, you often have that first step salt, and it's a matter of kind of going through with the right antigen mixture until you find their response point. When you're dealing with people with autoimmunity, or complicated chronic illnesses, you have a mystery to solve first. And so with those people you have a lot more time invested in their history and what all the symptoms are in the progression and what things they've done that influenced it. It's a much more complicated conversation. And then you often have a period of trial and error with a series of different antigens before you figure out what makes that person tick. So that's those are the kind of the big division really, and I get a lot of people who think they have chronic Lyme disease for example, but the symptoms on the list of chronic Lyme disease overlapped tremendously with all kinds of other like you know, syndromic kind of disorders and so about half the people I get who think they have chronic Lyme disease because of test results or whatever other doctors told them or their research on the internet they don't they're reacting to something else entirely. And we have to go through kind of a you know period of trial and error with different antigens to find out what will resolve that for people. So it's all those groups though have a good chance of responding to some kind of immunotherapy right LDI or or otherwise, if you have allergies that's a no brainer. Yes. This is a great approach for that if you have any named autoimmune disease, Crohn's disease, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, Ms. You know, whatever, any named autoimmune disease. I know what the antigens are for a lot of them already because I've worked them out over the last 13 years. And for others, it's a matter of trial and error or experimentation, and sometimes we do what's called autologous LDI, with people where I take samples from their own body, their own likes sinus samples, if they have chronic sinusitis, they won't go away, or even a skin swab. If they have a rash that hasn't responded to anything else we've tried or stool sample or a swab sample from their mouth, whatever, it depends on their symptoms and where the inflammation is manifesting. And sometimes that fixes it just desensitizing them to their own microbiome. Yeah, so it's, it's pretty broad. It's hard to run into a person today in the modern industrialized world who does not have at least one kind of allergy or autoimmune condition. It's really uncommon. And maybe I'm living in a bubble, because that's what I do for a living. But even when I talk to random people that I just met, they usually have something come up that I'm like, oh, yeah, I have a treatment for that.
Unknown Speaker 15:49
Yeah, no, I entirely agree. And it's just because of the wonderful mix of fun and exciting pollutants, electromagnetic, energetic, photonic, physical, etc.
Unknown Speaker 16:00
And bad food. You know, do you realize terrible food, nutrient poor food that doesn't have a trace minerals, and it doesn't have the right fatty acid makeup? Just people aren't made, right. And the best evidence for that is your teeth. Like, if anyone listening actually has all of their wisdom teeth, and they didn't have them. They're not crooked. They didn't have them pulled for any reason. And they've never had a cavity in their life. You had good nutrition. Anyone else did not? Yeah, it's that simple. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. It's because their teeth are like a window to their overall health. And it's true for human beings. And if you read Weston prices book on nutrition and physical degeneration, it will blow you away. The evidence for that argument in there. 1937. It's not new, every now it's as
Unknown Speaker 16:48
old as time. Yeah, remarkably, people are good at forgetting really important things, especially when they get paid a lot of money to peddle another narrative. So we
Unknown Speaker 17:00
expert, if you become an expert in something, you're heavily invested, your ego and your financial welfare heavily invested in being right and being confronted with contrary evidence is intolerable.
Unknown Speaker 17:13
tolerable? Yeah. So um, you throw a bunch a bunch of words around there that I think we ought to cover and sort of talk about, like immune response antigen. You know, I think the biggest misconception that people come to me with is that they need to boost their immune system or otherwise augment it. And I think what they don't realize is the immune systems is really complicated, very complex. And I'm gonna, when I try and explain the complexity to them, I'm like, Look, it's a little bit like, you know, how you have to use force in society in order to get things like you want, like, you want to take down a school shooter, you send in a SWAT team, you want to like tow a car that's in violation of a parking standard, you send the meter maid and the tow truck, right? You don't send the SWAT team to get rid of the car, right? That's violating the parking fine, and you don't send the meter maid after the school shooter. And they're like, Yeah, and I'm like, listen, you're saying, when you want to boost your immune system that all you want to do is upgrade the meter maids to the SWAT team and give them an armored car. This is not necessarily the solution to your problem. You need to balance your immune system and give it the information and energy that it needs, like sunlight and darkness at night and proper nutrition and wholesome food and sometimes supplements and herbs and stuff like that. But like I was saying, You know what, what I found is that there came a point where the person's immune system was so confused and the SWAT team was going after the park cars and jaywalkers and the petty criminals, and it was really causing a lot of mayhem. And I said, Look, we need a different approach, where we actually explain to the SWAT officers that it's not appropriate to use deadly force on the jaywalkers and the petty criminals, and they shouldn't you know, drive over the parked car that's violating the parking ordinance with the armored car. And then they're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So that's how I look at immunotherapy thoughts on that and where do you start that conversation with people?
Unknown Speaker 18:58
Yeah, like you said, a lot of people will have the concept that I need to boost my immune system and that often comes from other practitioners telling them that right we've got and it's part of the natural Pathak Doctor lore, right, the naturopathic following which is wonderful has had this, we're going to make you healthy idea, which means which which involves that idea of increasing boosting your health boosting your vitality boosting your immune system, right. And I think it's a it's a kind of conceptual term rather than a literal term to them. It's like we're gonna make your immune system work better. Okay, great. Well, I think we could agree on that, you know, but if you're just talking about the term boosting, it's like, we're just gonna make it bigger and stronger. That's not as effective. And what I explained to people is right at the nuance there is we need to get your immune system to do its job correctly. Not to not to just sell more weapons to the enemy that shooting at you because ostensibly when you have an immune related illness, all of your symptoms are caused by your immune system. So if you Want to just boost immune activity, you're likely to get sicker, not better. The best example I've run into is stem cell therapy. Some of the patients I've had with chronic illness, chronic immunological illnesses that have that have been in the worst shape. It was because they got catastrophically sicker after having stem cells put it Yeah, no, no, seriously. And that is the worst example of boosting the immune system that it has catastrophic results for some people, I wouldn't everybody's gonna happen. But basically, you're taking a person with this chronic inflammatory situation whose immune system is going berserk against themselves. And then you're taking fat, you know, stem cells from their body fat and putting them in intravenously. So it's this non targeted systemic, like, let's just throw money at the problem kind of idea. What did those stem cells become, you know, they go where the body's demand is, right? It just economy, they become immunological cells, but they aren't doing a different job. They're doing the same job the immune system is doing. And I've had a number of patients that became just completely disabled from from that, because it's a, it's a crude, nonspecific, non targeted way of trying to, quote boost the immune system. And it's, it's like my least favorite, but it's my most prominent example of why that's kind of a bad idea. Yeah. And what you want to do is reprogram the immune system, and like you said, give the law enforcement team the clear and precise identification of the problem, not just go out and start shooting, right? Right. That's what we have to do with immunotherapy, it should be antigen specific and targeted, you know, or, in the case of what I do, you can give because what we're doing with LDI is promoting immune tolerance, which is from desensitization, right? That it's a nuanced, but it's a very different sort of set different side of the same coin. With LDI, we can use broad mixtures of antigens, we just have to make sure the right one is in there. But you can have a million other things in the mixture that you don't need. And it has no collateral effects, which is one of the nice things about it's why I gravitated towards this therapy, and not one of the more specific, you know, derivative therapies is that it's just promoting tolerance, and there's no harm involved with promoting tolerance to anything.
Unknown Speaker 22:20
Yeah, so long as you're Yeah. And and that's such an interesting, interesting concept, right? Because people have this mindset of let's kill all the bugs, right, which is really very, very, very profitable for disinfectant companies and soap companies. And I mean, it's remarkable all the different things we have in modern life that now have like antibiotics and or antibacterial, my favorite there has to be so because so by definition is antibacterial, because it will lice any cell, while it comes in contact with adding antibiotics to soap would be like adding, I don't know, arsenic to nuclear weapons. It's just silly. So what convinced me that this is a very flawed paradigm, among other things, was the number of patients I saw who would go to very expensive doctors and spend sometimes more than their life savings, they take out other mortgages and lines of credit and things like that, and they would bankrupt themselves. Spending money on their chronic Lyme disease or their chronic this or their chronic data, I had patients who flew to Germany and had therapeutic hyperthermia. And I won't say that there's not a time in place for killing bugs that are doing bad things, right. But I saw this failing catastrophically and very expensively for patient after patient. And it became apparent to me that the problem was not the bug, it was how the immune system was handling it. And you know, it would show up with like a nuclear weapon for a garden variety bug that was really like a Petunia. And all it needed was a simple gardening fork instead of you know, creating a nuclear wasteland of the backyard, so to speak. And that is how I look at the immune system, it's supposed to basically garden your microbiome in a way that doesn't create an enormous amount of collateral damage. And in our modern world, it gets confused and it brings the nuclear weapon to, you know, the Petunia section of the garden and you know, your life becomes a miserable disaster area, so to speak, and that's why I gravitated towards LDI it's why send people your way.
Unknown Speaker 24:18
Yeah, it's the the kill kill kill strategy has made sense historically, when after germ theory, right? People don't people don't really realize the whole history of ignorance of the medical profession, right? We're still ignorant and one of the beautiful things about ignorance is you don't know that you're ignorant, but the the ego of humanity you always wants to think well, those were the Dark Ages. Now. We've got it all figured out. Now, man, it's still really dim in here. A little more light. And in the area of the immune system. It's as bad as any other area of medicine honestly. But you know, before we had microscopes, which I don't know was that a two or 300 years ago and human History maybe it's not that much longer,
Unknown Speaker 25:01
right Leeuwenhoek villains and let's say late 1700s
Unknown Speaker 25:05
Yeah, before that it was like you know it chronic illnesses were caused by curses or a God or the devil or a demon or something evil humors black bile and phlegm and the other. It's descriptive based on what's coming out of you.
Unknown Speaker 25:19
But you know, what's interesting about that is even, even when you read historical accounts of infectious diseases, the way that they behave, it's very confusing. Like the 1918, Spanish flu, skipped towns and villages. Explain that to me using the contagion theory, right? The Black Death was there one day, and then it was gone. The next it wasn't like somebody in in it because it stopped appearing in England in like the late 17, or something hundreds. And it didn't not completely peter out, but they went from losing, you know, tons and tons of people on a regular basis to suddenly losing nobody. It's not like they invented the flush toilet in the late 1700s. I mean, this is the cycles of the moon, is it solar flares? I mean, God only knows. But people have this arrogance to say, Oh, well, it was the antibiotic, or the vaccine, or the magical song and dance that we did, or the 10,000 prisoners of war that we sacrificed at the Temple of the Sun last month, you know, and then people get this idea like, Oh, it must be true, because the people in charge say it's true. And now they just cut off the head of the guy over there who questioned whether or not they were right.
Unknown Speaker 26:23
Right, exactly. Yeah, popular opinion has never been analogous with the truth.
Unknown Speaker 26:29
In fact, it's a pretty good way to find out what's wrong.
Unknown Speaker 26:31
I have my wife make a shirt for me that says the truth is not a democracy. My name atrophic is that I like to take credit for that quote, like, the more people believe something does not make it true. I'm sorry. But and social media has proven that in spades, right. Like, people see the same thing on their feet over and over and over again. And it becomes truth to them when there's never been truth to it. And you know, but but the average person, just like the people during the Black Plague and whatnot, they didn't know what was causing it, or what was going on. Humans really crave explanation. And because they crave it so badly, they're willing to accept an explanation that has no logical basis. And that's unfortunate, you should really have a higher standard of proof, I think it's, we'd all be better off if we were happier with uncertainty. Because uncertainty leaves the possibility to find the truth. Certainty shuts the door to all actual truth, because the odds are whatever you're super certain about is still not correct. And you know, there's work to be done. And in medicine, especially and in politics, for sure. And so uncertainty shouldn't be something we were like a warm blanket, but we don't we think it's a bad thing. You want to be sure about stuff, and I don't live my life that way. I'm not really sure if anything, the longer I've lived most 50 now, and I have nine children. And I can tell you that I'm not very sure of anything. And I like it that way. Like in my in my history, when I've been really sure of things I've often done eventually been proven wrong, and then that hurts, right? Doesn't hurt so bad if you were waffling. Okay, cool. Let's go that way, because the ability to change direction when you learn that something was incorrect, is progress. And in medicine, we're not very good at that, like we cling to our beliefs, we cling to our practices. And back to the whole infectious model. Once they learned that certain diseases were caused by infectious microorganisms. That became the paradigm. And it's all about penicillin, and erythromycin and try tetracycline. And we need more antibiotics. We got to kill these organisms, but it has all the work in the last 1020 years on the microbiome. And what it does for us, right, you've got like 9 trillion microorganisms that make up Leland Stillman and only about a trillion cells that are human Leland Stillman. So 90% of you is microorganisms. And in terms of DNA, which people don't don't really appreciate how much the organisms in your body do for you. They make nutrients, they make neurotransmitters, they detoxify chemicals, like all these people that are told they have methylation problems in their DNA. For the vast majority of them, that doesn't matter. It's inconsequential, because the microbes that live in your body methylate for you, so it doesn't matter. You could have total methylation failure on a genomic DNA basis, and you methylate fine as an ecosystem. Yeah, people to understand that complexity of who and what we are. And when you're just going in with the nuclear option, like you said, with these broad spectrum antibiotics, and maybe three or four of them at a time if you get involved with a Lyme literate medical doctor that just lays waste to this field. And that keeps you well, and it is so counterproductive to health, but we're still mired in that. It's an it's an infectious thing. We got to kill them and as I've played with chronic inflammatory illnesses, I have been able to identify a number of chronic illnesses over time that have been thought to be infections that are not what they're are caused by is that a chronic immune reaction against the micro organism? And people might say, well, what's the difference? The difference is totally healthy people carry that same microorganism and they're not sick. So if you're looking at like, say syphilis, almost everyone who picks up syphilis, treponema pallidum, the organism, the spire kid will be sick, right? If you look at Ebola virus, you know, almost everyone who gets it will get sick. Like there are certain organisms that are true pathogens that if they get in your body, you got to kill
Unknown Speaker 30:40
them. Although what's funny about that ties this, if you were really going to prove that statement, you'd have to autopsy lots and lots of people who died apparently healthy without the disease and prove that they didn't have the organism?
Unknown Speaker 30:52
Well, no, you wouldn't. Because you would, what you would do is find people that died of completely non infectious things and find that they do have the organism, you know, which is what they've done with like Borrelia. So like Lyme disease, and we're finding Borrelia in people's brains like, Yeah, but why do you think that's abnormal? Right. So the the intellectual leap that's made that is probably fallacious is thinking that it's not normal to have it in you. And that that's the this is part of that whole problem people have with it is, you know, if you find healthy asymptomatic people that are carrying an organism, then that organism doesn't cause illness, right, like Coronavirus, let's say, a moderate example 70 75% of people who pick up Coronavirus remain asymptomatic, they don't get sick, which means the virus doesn't cause an illness. Plain and simple. It's a it's a significant majority. Right? So then what does make people sick? Well, what does make people sick and a lot of these instances is how your immune system reacts against the virus
Unknown Speaker 31:52
and whether or not it eradicates a dangerous one right off the bat, which is what doesn't have
Unknown Speaker 31:57
to eradicate it. I mean, how many people carry Epstein Barr Virus? Raise your hand every Yeah, everyone carries Epstein Barr Virus and it's not responsible for hardly any chronic illness ever. I can tell you that definitively. But if you read published articles and things people write about speculating, because they find it in sick people, no matter what illness pick your illness, you can find somebody who wrote an article that says, oh, all these people have Epstein Barr Virus, so it must be caused by Epstein Barr Virus.
Unknown Speaker 32:26
And this is like saying that ambulances cause car wrecks,
Unknown Speaker 32:29
or that having ears causes deafness. You know, it's like,
Unknown Speaker 32:33
I've never heard that one that's really good. I'm borrowing that
Unknown Speaker 32:35
asinine. It's this old logical fallacy that Propter Hoc ergo, or post hoc ergo propter hoc, which means it came after this, therefore, it must be because of this, right? That's the old you know, like correlation does not prove causation. Just because all these people have this virus doesn't mean it's related to the illness, just because you you can test anybody walking by for Borrelia, to see if they have the borrelia bacteria in them. They know where we blame for Lyme disease, you'll find it in completely healthy people right and left all over the place. And they're not sick. So you cannot say that it causes the illness, what's causing the illness is the interplay between the host and the organism with the immune system's involvement. And when you start to look at it that way, which is the way I've viewed illness, this through this lens for the last 1213 years, you realize that a lot of these things we believe are chronic infections we can fix by reestablishing normal tolerance for the immune system for the organism. And then the organism can live within your ecosystem like it always has, with no problem. Again, if you read Weston prices book from the 1930s, tuberculosis was this big plague on humanity then, right? He's looking at these populations of people who eat a completely healthy, normal native diet. None of them have tuberculosis. The same genetic pool of people who live one town over that are eating bread and cookies and milk and stuff, that they're getting tuberculosis and dying in droves. They all have the organism guaranteed even the even the Healthy People will carry mycobacterium tuberculosis, but they're not sick. Why? Right? It's the same idea if you're a healthy individual with a healthy functioning immune system, you can handle carrying 9 trillion germs and they don't hurt you. And you don't attack them and appropriately so you don't get the illness and that's that's the next step in understanding illness but our our culture is not there yet.
Unknown Speaker 34:31
Well and to be fair, the culture there's an enormous amount of money riding on the you know, let's kill all the bugs paradigm. You know, I just saw I mean, every time I turn on or watch something like for free on some streaming platform, every I feel like every drug every ad now is a drug and it's all for these autoimmune inflammatory or, you know, so called infectious illnesses. And it's a it's a huge moneymaker.
Unknown Speaker 34:54
Right? We're in a reptile dysfunction pill or something like that.
Unknown Speaker 34:59
Although I think they're probably Ah targeting me and I'm not in that demographic yet. Maybe you're gonna give me that's you.
Unknown Speaker 35:05
They're trying to sell those to 20 Somethings now, because testosterone deficiency is also another epidemic problem of our society. Well, we can talk about that. Yeah, but not you know, in in terms of the medical conditions we're talking about. It's not just the bug killing thing. The other ads you see for drugs are all immunosuppressants, right, like immunosuppressant drugs for ulcerative colitis, or psoriasis, or Ms. They're just a myriad of these now, and those drugs are way more expensive than antibiotics, right? Like, that's, and they call it immunotherapy.
Unknown Speaker 35:37
I know. So let's talk about I mean, I'm really curious to hear how you explain how immune how you can manipulate immune tolerance with different forms of immunotherapy. And obviously, we're gonna gloss over or I want to gloss over because I don't really want to talk about it. The really simple way that doctors what they do with immunotherapy, which is basically we take a drug that cripples a pathway or or agonizes, and, and activates a pathway to manipulate the immune system kind of like, you know, you can jam on the gas pedal when your parking brake is on. But so what's the artful way to do this?
Unknown Speaker 36:15
Well, there have been a lot of different methods of immunotherapy, the way we're talking about it in where you're, you're trying to re educate the immune system to get it to stop reacting to something, right, that's in a targeted way. So like the drug companies sense of immunotherapy. In the world of cancer, they're using the term immunotherapy also. And it's also it's being used entirely differently in the field of oncology. They're older, taking cancer cells, and then culturing them with some of your lymphocytes and teaching your own lymphocytes how to attack the cancer cells, and then putting those lymphocytes back into you to spread the word and to using your immune system in an effective way to kill the cancer directly. That's beautiful love, you know, they need to be doing more and more of that, and I think centers will but that takes away to chemotherapy drugs, and so they gotta, you know, there's a lot of money still in that field. What we're talking about in terms of this kind of immunotherapy is reprogramming an immune response that is unnecessary and harmful, and getting the immune system to stop doing it. There are two general ways to go about that from different directions. One is the forceful adaptive response way like conventional allergy shots, where they give you a substantial dose of the antigen, and they escalate it over time, they give you more and more of it, they give you shots twice a week, and they keep escalating the concentration and they go to maybe once a week, once a month for maintenance, but they're giving you very large, palpable tangible amounts of the antigen you react to. And the way we think it works, it forces the immune system to have to give up like, Okay, I'm keep getting exposed to this, I'm just going to eventually give up throwing out my weapons and say, Fine, you win, I'm not going to attack it anymore. Unfortunately, that doesn't work all the time. It might it seems to work says 50 to 60% of the time, I would say this is what you were taught in like allergy fellowships. So occasionally somebody goes into anaphylaxis from from those doses, because
Unknown Speaker 38:11
unpleasant, it's convenient, it's dangerous. In certain cases, it's more expensive than we don't use it.
Unknown Speaker 38:20
Yeah, gotta be in the office twice a week. And then there are these other methods of immunity sensitization where they promote tolerance. So rather than causing a forceful adaptation response to back off, or else, there are other ways that I think we don't understand the mechanisms yet, but my my suspicion is that they are somehow rekindling the body's normal tolerance function like when a baby's born, and it takes its first breath of air, and it's nursing from mom and getting germs in its mouth, from Mom's skin and from everything else. Your immune system has to see and identify and catalog everything in the world. And this is what people don't understand people think that tolerance is the default programming. It's not learning to tolerate something is a choice by your immune system, like learning to tolerate your mother in law, like you were talking about earlier. You know, if you have to decide, it's not the default, oh, everything's fine until I get attacked. Your immune system is charged with this mammoth task of identifying and catalog logging everything in the world to address but expose everything you eat everything you read, everything you touch, and it has to say, okay, that's birch tree pollen, not harmful, put it on the tolerate list. And the tolerate list is way bigger than the defend against list like the things in the world that can actually harm you are a tiny, tiny fraction of all the things so your immune systems, the bulk of your immune systems job is developing immune tolerance to the normal.
Unknown Speaker 39:50
And this is one of the reasons why why you and I don't order antibody based
Unknown Speaker 39:57
allergy testing. They've been nothing because As your body will make antibodies against pretty much anything as just a natural response, but it doesn't wait to illness or symptoms. And antibodies are blurry and dirty and myopic antibodies are not very specific. I mean, a good example again is the Coronavirus thing. So, an antibody that your body makes against one strain of Coronavirus will probably cross react with 100 different strains of Coronavirus. It's not specific to that one, because your genetic code doesn't have the capacity to make a specific antibody for every 10 quadrillion proteins in the world. It's gonna make one that cross reacts with 1000 different things. And it has to because of, excuse me, resource management. So
Unknown Speaker 40:44
imagine if you had one screwdriver for every type of screw you had, or every screw you had in your house, we steal it.
Unknown Speaker 40:50
Yeah, it doesn't work that way. So that so antibodies are dirty, blurry, nonspecific things. And when you get an antibody test that says, Oh, I reacted to this organism, you might not actually have that one species, you might only have been exposed to cause a distant cousin of that species. It's not exact. And people want to believe in these tests, but you shouldn't. It's unfortunate, they're not good tests, any antibody based tests, unless it was a very specific single thing. You know, like you gave somebody the rubella vaccine or whatever the church, some of the some of the antibody titers against vaccines that they produced, are pretty. Yeah, they're pretty specific, because we designed them that way. But if you're talking about things in nature, forget about it. It's like they're not specific at all. And your immune system, you know, it will have some antibody response to everything. Like if you do a food antibody panel, you have some number after all of them. And then the lab has to decide where the cut offs are for abnormal, but it's on top of
Unknown Speaker 41:51
that those antibodies may be telling your immune system be tolerated. Yeah, familia Latina, we don't attack or we die.
Unknown Speaker 41:59
Yeah. And IGE antibody doesn't always cause hives or anaphylaxis, sometimes IgG subgroups do. And I've seen people with really high IGE antibodies to foods, and they can eat them all day long, with no symptoms at all. Ain't that something? It just doesn't mean what you want it to mean. And so that's the nature of any test is, it's only useful if it's accurate and meaningful. And if it's accurate, a very high percentage of the time. antibody tests are not that it's terrible. So what I think we do with LDI, and probably with, you know, with some of the bioenergetic methods of desensitization, like na e t, some of the diagnostic machines like the Indigo, the Schio, QX, all the EA V technology devices, they probably work by retraining tolerance for things. And the reason I think that is because the dilutions we use are 1000s of times, millions of times are further weaker than the dilutions for the conventional allergy shots. And you can use a myriad of antigens simultaneously with no fallout, you're not going to cause new allergies in people or induce reactions that they didn't already have. Whereas you can do that by giving significant large doses of antigen. I mean, they do this in laboratory animals, if you want to cause an inflammatory disorder in a laboratory animal, you inject it with that protein you inject now, I mean, we know we can do it. Yeah, we can. I'd rather go the other way. Right? You go into the fire dilution range and look for that frequency based tolerance, promoting dose, that reestablishes normal immune tolerance, and then the illnesses that are associated, just go away. Yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 43:39
on that note, the dilutions you go out to would be, you know, and tell me if you disagree with my use of this word, but homeopathic.
Unknown Speaker 43:46
Yeah. And well, you know, homeopathic, the word is really about using a light using a certain thing to treat itself kind of right, like homeo, same suffering. And then the dilutions they worked out in homeopathy are just way, way out there. So to the point where you're not really delivering any measurable substance in a physical way to Herson. But that, you know, the FDA considers anything out past three C to be homea, or anything else past 1000 to one, I think, to be considered possibly homeopathic, which I think it's got to be further than that, but three C is a million to one. Yeah, and I think in my experience using this therapy with, I don't know how many hundreds 1000s of people over the last 13 or 14 years. I would say about three C is definitely a good breakpoint for where you're in this like, low dose world versus the straighter world a million to one. I have had a case here and there that I've had to treat at to see like a 10,000 to one dilution. And they still respond the way that they do with the weaker dilutions. So, you know, it's just there's variability and that's one of the difficult things about treating a living organism. Sure if you're, if you're working with physics or Chemistry, the rules are the same all the time, every time you conduct an experiment, it happens the same way, when you're dealing with a living organism, what really defines a living thing is the ability to adapt, which means when you impose certain variables or stimuli on a living thing, it changes. And as we are treating patients, as physicians, you have to keep that in mind, you will probably have to modify your therapy over time, because that person will be different every six months or every year, if they're following some regimen, they're not the same person anymore in a very meaningful way. So you have to stay on your toes. And with the immune system, that's very true. There are various things a human being will encounter, that will either cause the inception of a new immunological illness or change the threshold of an illness that they already have. So we have to change their doses periodically.
Unknown Speaker 45:53
I'm sure people have sent you literature on things like the memory of water and structured water and things like that with with LDI, and how it works. What are your thoughts on that? Like Dr. Emoto, his work? You know, the No, have you heard of Jerry Pollock at your alma mater? No, no, don't call it read this great book called The fourth phase of water, where he shows that water is actually structured in nature. And I think Luc Montagnier did some interesting experiments as well, where he transmitted information through the structure of water. And he really did. I mean, Luke, Luke muntanya, is a really heavy hitter, he actually, like showed this on digital, he digitized the information in the water, okay, suggesting that there's a real scientific basis for things like homeopathy, or the resonance in the frequencies coming through and things that are very dilute, that you would think wouldn't possibly have some kind of effect, because it's so dilute, based on our modern understanding of pharmacology,
Unknown Speaker 46:49
right? So pharmacology, modern pharmacology requires a physical molecule having a physical interaction with other physical molecules, whereas homeopathy is energetic. And you know, this, like we were talking about earlier, the ongoing layers of ignorance of human understanding who and what we are as an energetic entity is still a frontier, in our understanding and how to use that medically. There's a great book written by Lynne McTaggart called the field the man wants to read that's written, it's about this whole subject and her she's a journalist, but going out and studying the science, you're looking at the scientists who are studying this phenomenon, they studied homeopathic concept. And when we're like, this actually is working, we dilute the solution till the molecules aren't there anymore. And yet, it still has the same kind of measurable effect on a chemistry experiment. So not a biological system, where they're like, what, how, why, you know, so there's there's great power yet to be realized in that area of medicine. And I see LDI and homeopathy as working on that level. I do think it works at that level, because some of the dilutions I've had worked for people are well past 10, to the 24th. You know, and so like, the whole Avogadro's number thing for the chemistry nerds out there, like, you know, the number of atoms in a mole of a substance is like 1.036 times 10, to the 23rd. I think you could look it up, but I think that's it. So if you get out to 2010, to the 24th dilution or more, you conceivably have not even a single molecule in any given dose, you would bolster. So that's a dilution of 12 C, you know, in my math, so I've, I've seen plenty of people who respond at like 15 C, 18. C, you know, somewhere in this further range, and they but they respond in the exact same manner clinically as people who respond at four C, five c, six C. So when there is physical material potentially present in their dose, I think the mechanism of action and mechanism effect is on the vibrational spectrum. And not Yeah, just that's my, my sense having used the tool for all this time, and I think somebody's way smarter than me, with better technology someday may be able to prove some of this.
Unknown Speaker 49:08
What are they going to score on the point? Oh, 1% of the top tier of medical school.
Unknown Speaker 49:16
doesn't teach you how to figure out physics problems.
Unknown Speaker 49:19
I know it's true. So yeah, reminds me of Nikola Tesla's quote, one of my favorite. He said, If you want to find the secrets of the world, think in terms of energy, frequency and vibration, and I think that's a pretty good place to close it out. So documents that you want to tell people where they can find you. And for people watching this documents and doesn't just see people and and use LDI in their cases. He also mentors, clinicians. How can clinicians find out more about that and if people want to work with you as patients, how can they find out more about that?
Unknown Speaker 49:47
The best two places to go for contact purposes. We have a website. Our business is called Global immunotherapy. And if you go to global immunotherapy be.com you'll find our website, you can find out how to contact us my wife's email addresses just my wife and I. So our office office is virtual from our home here in Kona. And you will deal directly with the two of us. And there aren't layers of you know, front desk staff and personnel that will forget to pass on messages, we, we do a really good job communicating with people better than I did when I had a clinic with 15 people in it. So you get her email address, which is Jeanette de i n e t t e.ldi@gmail.com. If you want to go directly, but I would go to the website and get some information about LDI. And what we do are the list of all of our antigen mixtures is posted right on the website. So people are curious, well, what's in your lime mixture, what species all 75 species of bacteria are listed there you can see whatever it is we have in any mixture, your doctor can try to recreate it if they want to on their own, I don't care. The other best way to learn about LDI. And what we do is I have a collection of about 50 different YouTube videos. So if you go to YouTube, and you put in Thai Vincent LDI, you'll get all these different videos. And some of them are basic introductory information. So you can learn more about kind of the concept of the whole therapy and its application. And then a lot of them are more disease specific like arthritis, autism, inflammatory bowel disorder, acne, herpes virus infections, you know, so you can go look at whatever seems to be, you know, related to you and your problems, or you just watched the basic ones and it's, that's the best way to go about learning more and deciding whether it resonates with you as something that you think might be worth trying without having to invest any time or money in talking to us. That's how we tell people to start generally.
Unknown Speaker 51:46
Very cool. Ty, thank you for your time. questions posted in the comments. I will respond them as I can.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Allergy, Autoimmunity, and Immunotherapy with Dr. Ty Vincent